Dealing With Imposter Syndrome
On this episode join Natalie (host of Wellness for Wolverines) and Juno (host of The Cultured Wolverine) as they talk about the ins and outs of dealing with Imposter Syndrome. Also, celebrating Natalie’s last episode as they graduate and move onward from the UVU Review.
Transcript:
Natalie: What’s up, Wolverines, and welcome back to a special episode. We are combining two of our podcasts, mine being Wellness for Wolverines.
Juno: And me over here, Lurking in the Shadows, coming forth from the Cultured Wolverine.
Natalie: Heck yeah. And today, we kind of wanted to talk about a specific subject that came up because I am about to graduate this semester.
I know, which is crazy that it’s already here, but I kind of was thinking about it and how I feel like I’ve like learned nothing. I’m like, I feel like I faked this whole entire thing and I’m like going into the world and I’m like lying to everybody, which is not true. It just kind of feels like that cause I’m entering a new era of my life, which everybody kind of has to do at some [00:01:00] point.
And so because of that, we wanted to talk about the lovely topic of imposter syndrome and my friend Juno here has. The definition.
Juno: Yes, I found the definitions that way I don’t look like a complete dumb, dumb next to Natalie . So Oxford defines imposter syndrome as the persistent inability to believe that one’s success is deserved or has been legitimately achieved as a result of one’s own efforts or skills, or basically you’re just not good enough in your own brain,
Natalie: or you think you think you’re not good enough.
Yes. Yeah. That, yeah, that sums it up. Um, interestingly enough, it is most common to have occasions of this in everybody’s life. But for certain cases, more often than not, I feel like there’s a lot of times where I’m like, I don’t belong here. But there’s ways to overcome it, and some better than [00:02:00] others. And it is something that impedes a lot of our lives, specifically us two talking to you today
Juno: Yeah, no, personally for me, like, I am a creative. I hate calling myself that. But I, a lot of creatives suffer from the whole problem of imposter syndrome all the time because we’re constantly making stuff and it just doesn’t always feel real. Like, it has been an on and off battle for many a year.
Natalie: I think personally, like, if we’re getting into how it probably developed is, I As I’ve mentioned probably many times, I’m the youngest of a huge family of very successful people, who have, who I have seen, you know, from an outside perspective work very hard.
I mean my oldest brother is a triple board doctor, which
Juno: Oh, dip.
Natalie: Yeah. Um, very impressive stuff, you know, and so when I sit here like that I’m gonna get a bachelor’s degree I feel like I didn’t do the same amount of work as him because obviously I’m in an entirely different field than he [00:03:00] is.
So because I didn’t do all that stuff, I’m like, Oh, I don’t deserve this. So like I’m faking it. And I genuinely think that it’s because everybody’s putting on some sort of facade. Because when you’re telling stories, You want to put the best of yourself or like you kind of want to cover the mistakes you made So like when people are saying like, oh, yeah, I did the degree like You’re obviously going to tell how much work it took to get that degree And everybody did but when you’re doing it yourself, you’re like, oh, well, maybe I didn’t do as much as they did and so it kind of seems like In your head that you don’t deserve it and that’s kind of like my experience with like some imposter syndrome like Especially in the design world, where everybody has like their different processes.
I’m like, oh, if I’m not doing that, I’m not doing it right. Therefore, I don’t belong.
Juno: Yeah, no, for me, like a lot of my technical training and stuff has just come from me just hammering things out and trying to figure things out. And so especially when I started my [00:04:00] major, it was terrifying because I was surrounded by a bunch of people who knew how to draw, who had spent years with technical training and their family telling them that they drew something nice and putting it on the fridge.
We’re not getting into my daddy issues.
Natalie: A story for another time,
Juno: being surrounded by all these incredible talented artists, That I just sort of look at my own stuff, and I, it’s hard to not feel like I don’t belong in this room full of talented people.
Natalie: Yeah, because everybody has like their talents. And I think that probably brings us into one of the ways to kind of give it over.
This is is to truly separate your thoughts of how people are similar and how people are different. Because we can bond over things, you know, that’s how you make friends, is similar interests, similar likes, similar stories or experiences, similar trauma, you know, but you also have to acknowledge that everybody is different.
[00:05:00] Because there’s some people, That I, that couldn’t even dream of doing something that I see as a simple everyday task, you know what I’m saying? And then there’s some things like over there where it’s like, oh I could never do that. But that’s just because I’ve been busy practicing talents on the other side of education.
Juno: Yeah, or in my case, it’s like, of course I didn’t have all the time to draw with the special stuff. I was trying to survive. Yeah,
Natalie: and there’s that too. Life situations happen. And if you’re going through that and hard times, you’re gonna be a little bit quote unquote behind. I don’t agree with ever saying that you’re behind or above everybody because everybody’s where they’re supposed to be.
Yeah, no. But like in your head, I’m saying
Juno: you’re gonna
Natalie: be a little bit behind someone who didn’t have to go through a traumatizing or extremely extraneous experience. thing that happened to you, whether that’s physical, mental, you know, relationship, or financial.
Some people didn’t have to do that. And so when you’re taking that time away to focus [00:06:00] on that, you’re taking a little bit of time of your own talents. And so you kind of have to come back to that a little later.
Juno: Yeah. And that’s why I think it’s important to just focus objectively on you, like map out your strengths and instead of focusing on what other people have that you don’t, focus on what you want to expand within yourself.
Like, I have found just like the one thing that has helped me get through so much of my own personal issues, just not looking at it like, I wish I had this, or just seeing it as what do I want to do to expand myself into something better?
Natalie: I like that. I think that like internal focus, like as long as it’s mediated, you know, like you’re always going to be at a point of something.
And there’s always going to be something that you could be better at. And so you also do have to like take those wins as well. But when adding on to what you were saying, I think someone told me this in like in a little conference that I had for a job fair was there is going to be so [00:07:00] many questions of like, can you do this?
And you’re not going to be able to because there’s so many things in my major that every job is different. And they’re gonna want different things. And so, but the goal is that they want to see that you’re willing. So if someone comes in like, oh, do you know how to do this? Then you kind of are like, no, but I will.
In a couple days.
Juno: Yeah.
Natalie: Like, I don’t right now, but I will. Like, I can. And so, and then that’s when you like put in the work to actually know what you’re talking about or what you’re going to do or how to work a certain program. So I kind of liked that like mindset change.
Juno: No, case in point, like a few years ago, did I know how to edit videos?
No, I do now, sort of. Yeah.
Natalie: Hey, but it’s a start.
You’re better than you were.
Juno: Yeah, and honestly, once you get to a point when you’re okay with yourself, it’s kind of nice because then you stop looking at other people like competition and just friends who have cool skills. Like I learned how to do so much shading and detailing just from [00:08:00] somebody who I thought did a fantastic job.
And it was great to see that not as a threat to me, but as someone who can help me be better.
Natalie: That, I like, that is such a good point. Cause it’s so, especially in high school when like everything’s troubling on top of you, anybody that’s better than you, you’re like, ah, like get out. Like, at least that was my experience.
Juno: Nobody is their best self in high school. And if they were, that’s not good. Lucky them or
Natalie: we got to talk about your past, but it is true. Like. As soon as you see somebody that’s doing something better or something, uh, that’s such a great opportunity to be able to go, like, put the jealousy and the competition aside and, and learn from them.
Like, as hard as that is to kind of let go of that pride. Once you do, you’re able to learn so much more. Like once I put that aside, like here at school and I was like, okay, well, it’s not just me against everybody. Like everybody’s learning here so [00:09:00] I can learn something from them too. I was able to learn so much around digital media.
I mean, like I started just in UX design, but now I know video editing. I know camera editing. I know audio editing.
Juno: You’re a podcast superstar.
Natalie: And like, I know stuff in VR. Like. I have, it’s not that I’m like an expert in all these areas, but like I have basic understanding of everything around digital media way more than I would have if I just kept to myself.
Juno: Yeah. I don’t know. I think you’re a pretty good podcast host personally.
Natalie: Thank you. You too.
Juno: Thanks. I’m glad. I also think it’s important to understand that a lot of other people are going through it and sometimes it’s nice to be able to open up and share your feelings with it. Although, I will add the caveat, be careful who you share your feelings with.
Natalie: Yes.
Juno: Yeah.
Natalie: Yes.
Juno: Yeah, once upon a time, I lived in an apartment full of a bunch of BYU students, and I’m going to call them out because BYU is BYU, and we’re better [00:10:00] than them.
Natalie: Yes. Wolverines!
Juno: Wolverines forever. But yeah, no, one day I came home, and I was really struggling with my classes, And I was just like questioning myself and like, am I good enough for this?
And I talked to all of them and I was like, Hey, do any of you guys like have like an imposter syndrome type deal? It’s like, I I’m trying my best, but I just don’t feel like I’m good enough. And every single one of them looked at me very confused and they were like, no, I never doubt myself because the Lord loves me.
And I’m good enough. What’s wrong with you?
Natalie: Well, I’m grateful that they think that. They have the confidence. But like, you know, I still feel like I, I have importance. And like, on this, you know, like, Earth. But I still struggle with like, feeling like I belong in certain places, you know? Like, I don’t know if that answers it all, but hey, if they were able to get over that with that answer.
Juno: Oh, nah. I doubt it. [00:11:00] Honestly, like We all will struggle. We all will have moments in which we doubt ourselves. And if you’re right now just thinking, no, that’s not me. Just wait, honey. Just wait. But yeah, no, if you are going to just be hearing from other people, like, it’s important to recognize your struggles and to acknowledge them.
Because if you only ever bury them, and you never acknowledge when you have a hard time, or if you never do hard things, you’re never Going to grow as a person, like if you only ever do the things that you already know you’re good at, what are you going to become? Yeah, and if you say perfect, I’m not going to talk to you anymore.
Natalie: It’s hard because I do feel like that is an unfortunate stigma around here is to put out perfection, especially around BYU area. Because to be there, you have to be perfect in your grades and in your religion and, and everywhere else in life. And it gets kind of shoved [00:12:00] down, especially like where we’re living around people that are from there and everything like that.
I mean, for the first few years of college, I feel like it got a little better, especially after the pandemic and everything. But like before that, I found it really hard to be. friends with people solely on the reason that I was going to UVU instead of BYU. And because I didn’t like and that just created even more of just kind of like, oh, maybe I don’t belong like maybe I’m Maybe I’m not a good member or like maybe I’m not a good religious person or a good person because I’m not going to this school or I’m not doing anything and that’s just like it just causes, yeah, don’t You Put yourself on other people.
I guess that’s, that’s like first to fix yourself and then also like make sure you’re not putting other people down. Like that’s what I like about the school and I’ve said this so many times, it is a place for you. You’re allowed so much leeway to be yourself here at the school. Um, at least [00:13:00] they push for it and that’s what I do like.
Juno: And that’s what I like about here. UVU is just very laid back because we’re just a school of people trying to get stuff done. Trying to learn. Yeah, we’re just trying to learn, man. We ain’t trying to be a part of nothing. Yeah,
Natalie: and I do like that and that, I feel like that has helped me. Being here has helped me a lot where it’s like I do feel like I belong.
I don’t feel like I’m faking a lot of my stuff. You know, but you know going back into the real world. I’m like Maybe I am you know, it just gets that like fear creeps into the back of your head and Maybe it’s mixed with anxiety. I don’t know.
Juno: Yeah No, literally like it’s the reason why after all the years of creative production that i’ve done.
I still don’t have a patreon Everyone keeps yelling at me to get one. It’s like but what if nobody wants to throw money at me?
Natalie: Yeah
There’s like it’s big leaps and like You Do just have to kind of get that it is it’s a thin [00:14:00] line to walk I will say that and I think we had this conversation a little earlier where it’s like the difference between being confident in yourself and Cocky or like self centered And that is a very fine line I will say like people can get that mixed up to like you need to have confidence in yourself If you’re gonna make it in this world Like you need to like be confident Vouch for yourself and like have that confidence and that can be worked on.
Obviously, it’s really hard, but It’s also something where like you’re, if you’re going too far, that’s where you’re also taking down other people.
Juno: Yeah, I think it’s important to note and like I heard this from like a very profound and deep dude bro who is really into lifting weights, but I can lift people up without pushing others down.
It’s just like sure I can lift like 300 pounds, but it doesn’t matter if I have, if in order to do that I have to crush somebody else.
Natalie: But so yeah, like an example of like being confident for yourself, the biggest one, I’m going to bring it back [00:15:00] to job interviews. Sorry. That’s what I’m thinking about.
Juno: How dare you be relevant.
Natalie: I know. I’m graduating. It’s all I have to think about. But like job interviews, like you, you can’t go into. a job interview and be like, oh, hey, you know, like my name’s Natalie and I guess I’ve, I’ve done a little work in this. Like, I guess I’m pretty good. Um, I think I can do this, you know, like they’re not going to hire you if you say that, you know what I’m talking about?
Like if you’re, if you’re cowering and, and if you’re not sure of the things that you can do, either they’re not even going to pay attention to you or they can’t trust that you actually know what you’re doing. So that’s like, that’s, that’s the biggest example because it’s easy to see the difference. And like you walk in and you’re like, Hey, my name’s Natalie.
Like, you know who you are. Like, I can do this. I can do work on this program. Like all of these things.
Juno: Yeah. And especially just bringing it back to the creative side. Cause you know, I, I cultured Wolverine. I need to attach to the arts. [00:16:00] Yes. Like if you don’t buy into your own hype, nobody else is going to.
Like, I can’t tell you how many writers. Or poets or other people I’ve talked to in which they’ve tried to slowly get me to read their stuff But also being like no don’t don’t it’s terrible. It’s terrible But if you wanted to it’s like no buy into your own hype Yes, because I’m not on board if you’re not on board
Natalie: Yeah,
Juno: and I know it’s really hard but at the same time I need you to understand and I need you to ask yourself Do you want to stay in your box or do you want to go beyond?
Because you’re not going to do that if you don’t push your way out. Right. And it’s hard. I know. I’ve been there, done that, currently doing that. Crying every single night. But!
Natalie: I like that because on the creative side, like, I feel like it’s just a culture thing. Like I said, like a stigma that you have to be like, Oh, it’s not that good.
Like you have to down yourself to get that compliment, you know, like how people fight for you. And then we get uncomfortable with people saying it back. So it’s like, what’s the [00:17:00] point of it? But. I do agree like once you’re confident of that work and you’re willing to take that risk with it Go for it. And then that comes into like the in between the line that I was talking about It’s not like you’re going if you say that you tried your best and you really like this work Of course, nobody’s gonna think that you’re like Disclaiming some great artist you’re like, oh, yeah, i’m better than charles dickens, you know, like or I don’t even know if everybody likes that but Like, you know, like chucky d.
Yeah, he’s he’s got some good stuff, you know, like but like equated writers. Yeah You’re not trying to say that you’re the best out there that you’re better than everybody else and everybody should just go suck it You know Like you’re just vouching for your work because you’ve put the effort in so be confident in it I’m yelling.
I’m yelling at you. Yeah. Be confident in yourself guys Because I need to do I should reflect that back onto myself
Juno: No, literally you’re talking [00:18:00] to the person that was up late last night crying because I Didn’t feel like any of my stuff was that good
Natalie: Did you work hard on it?
Juno: I did. Then there you go. I know, like the 12 people who are hardcore dedicated are like, yes, this is good.
I’m like, no, it’s not you guys. You don’t know what you want. Yeah,
Natalie: and it’s hard especially like in the artistic thing where it’s not something where it’s like if it’s done, it’s done. You know, especially because Most of the stuff, I think, I might be speaking for you, so correct me if I’m wrong, a lot of our finals are projects instead of tests, which is hard because when you’re a test, you’re done, you’re graded, you get that, but with a project, you can always do more.
And that’s where, like, I befall. Like, you can meet the requirements, but you can always, like, change it to be a little bit better every time. That’s why iterations exist. But there is a final date for our stuff.
Juno: Yeah, no, and I think, like, the final deadlines are useful, because it’s the point in which everyone needs to stop, put the pencil [00:19:00] down, and just take a step back.
And it’s hard to see sometimes, because you’re so close to the project that you don’t know if it’s good anymore.
Natalie: You knew where your pencil ran off the paper, but nobody else is gonna see that.
Juno: Yeah, no, like, I did a bunch of super trippy animation tricks this year. Like, my eyeballs are bleeding. I am, like, going blind because of it.
And yet, I have a hard time. I just look at everyone else with their simple walk cycles or other things and I’m like, Am I doing a good job?
Natalie: It’s, I, yeah, especially when it comes to any artist like that, it’s really hard to step back.
Juno: And it’s also hard because there’s a lot of stigma against art jobs, which first of all, I don’t get because we all watch TV, we all watch movies, we all listen to music, but there’s a stigma.
And I don’t know about you, but whenever I show off the cool things that I do to my family and stuff, they will look at me and just ask, so do you have plans for a day job? Cause
Natalie: Annoying.
Juno: Oh, my goodness. Oh, that’s hard. I’m [00:20:00] sorry. Meh, such is
Natalie: life. Which is, there’s some backwards things where some people who work the hardest don’t get paid enough.
All of this said, we’re not experts. We’re not. We don’t have certificates or degrees in medical stuff, but hopefully some of this in here gives you some motivation to be confident in your stuff, especially in your art stuff or like creative side, because that’s where we need more creative in this world.
Don’t let people, or the school, or the government, push down your creativeness.
Juno: Natalie, no, we’re going to be put on a list. So, but yes, I don’t want live action Moana to the Moana ing. It’s not creative. Think of something new. Yeah, but, yeah, to just quickly summarize. Work on your skills. Be objective about yourself.
Open up to people who aren’t the worst people to be [00:21:00] around. I’m sorry, super soakers who are listening to this. Am I allowed to say that on air? I don’t know. I’m sorry, BYU students who are listening to this for some reason. But be kind to yourself, be kind to the people around you, and buy into your own hype.
Natalie: Yes. Be your, like, yes, share those. Unique things with people that you share with people, but also celebrate your own uniqueness. Find those things that you can do on your own and that you love to do. And sometimes you have to say, screw it to the world. If they don’t like you doing it, you like doing it.
And that literally is all that matters.
Juno: Yeah. And remember the public doesn’t know what they want until they have it. And a lot of the time the public has terrible taste. I mean, why else do you think we have as many planet of the apes movies as we do?
Natalie: Oh, that’s a great question, Juno.
Juno: Oh, man. Oh.
Natalie: I don’t know.
Juno: I can sense the hate that’s gonna come [00:22:00] from that
Natalie: comment. Wouldn’t know. Anyways, well, thank you for listening in, Wolverines. Um, just as a super sad note, this is my last time speaking with you, and I will miss you. Y’all dearly, I will miss this podcast. It has been remember you fondly as you slip into the great beyond.
Thank you I it’s gonna be a crazy adventure coming up and I’ve had so much fun here and Thanks for listening to my crazy rambles about mental health and hopefully you’ve learned Or at least been comforted that someone is just as sane as you are. And, but that’s it for today. Anything else,
Juno: Juno? Um, don’t make a second Moana movie and don’t make four more Frozen movies.
Alright. Well said. Put that in writing. Send it out. Yep. Rest in peace. Natalie Black, 2024. She died as she lived.
Natalie: Greatly.
Juno: Yes.
Natalie: Yes. Have a good [00:23:00] week, Wolverines, and have an awesome rest of your semester.
